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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 17:40:52 GMT
I could likely be ignored for saying this, but I don't believe we can conclude anything about the moon appearance issue. Perhaps in its path, the moon is showing different sides of itself, or something else going on. It isn't going to tell us anything about the flat earth map. Well, I don't know, but according to the map you should see it the same way as you do in Europe from below the equator too at a particular time. That to me is a big problem. Also, I am not talking about its path at all. I am discussing one specific point of its path when the same face is visible both below the equator and above it(i.e outside and inside the circle). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:41:48 GMT
I could likely be ignored for saying this, but I don't believe we can conclude anything about the moon appearance issue. Perhaps in its path, the moon is showing different sides of itself, or something else going on. It isn't going to tell us anything about the flat earth map. Well, I don't know, but according to the map you should see it the same way as you do in Europe from below the equator too at a particular time. That to me is a big problem. Also, I am not talking about its path at all. I am discussing one specific point of its path when the same face is visible both below the equator and above it(i.e outside and inside the circle). I'm saying that the moon could be moving in such a way that there is no way to have any consistency of what we see from various parts of the earth. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 17:50:43 GMT
Well, I don't know, but according to the map you should see it the same way as you do in Europe from below the equator too at a particular time. That to me is a big problem. Also, I am not talking about its path at all. I am discussing one specific point of its path when the same face is visible both below the equator and above it(i.e outside and inside the circle). I'm saying that the moon could be moving in such a way that there is no way to have any consistency of what we see from various parts of the earth. That is why I don't care about its movement. At any given moment the same face shouldn't be seen from above and below the equator. And sorry, by accident I opened edit instead of quote. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 17:56:42 GMT
I'm saying that the moon could be moving in such a way that there is no way to have any consistency of what we see from various parts of the earth. That is why I don't care about its movement. At any given moment the same face shouldn't be seen from above and below the equator. And sorry, by accident I opened edit instead of quote. It might be just me, but this issue is just a non-issue to me. The orientation of the moon at any given time, doesn't convince me of anything. Perhaps there are times that the same face of the moon is seen above and below the equator. And perhaps at other times, the moon moves in such a way, that different faces are seen. It just doesn't prove anything to me, because, we don't know how the moon operates. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:02:02 GMT
That is why I don't care about its movement. At any given moment the same face shouldn't be seen from above and below the equator. And sorry, by accident I opened edit instead of quote. It might be just me, but this issue is just a non-issue to me. The orientation of the moon at any given time, doesn't convince me of anything. Perhaps there are times that the same face of the moon is seen above and below the equator. And perhaps at other times, the moon moves in such a way, that different faces are seen. It just doesn't prove anything to me, because, we don't know how the moon operates. It doesn't matter how it operates. I am just saying that within the flat Earth model it won't match reality. Currently, in the real world you don't see the same face below and above the equator. Never  Perhaps you're not aware that from the southern hemisphere the face is always seen upside down compared to what we see in the northern hemisphere. It is not like you can choose which face to see on different days. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:05:45 GMT
It might be just me, but this issue is just a non-issue to me. The orientation of the moon at any given time, doesn't convince me of anything. Perhaps there are times that the same face of the moon is seen above and below the equator. And perhaps at other times, the moon moves in such a way, that different faces are seen. It just doesn't prove anything to me, because, we don't know how the moon operates. It doesn't matter how it operates. I am just saying that within the flat Earth model it won't match reality. Currently, in the real world you don't see the same face below and above the equator. Never Perhaps you're not aware that from the southern hemisphere the face is always seen upside down compared to what we see in the northern hemisphere. It is not like you can choose which face to see on different days. Looking at the moon most of my life, I would even have to question how people are getting this information that it looks this very specific way here, and there. I've lived in North America (above the equator) and South America (below the equator). The moon didn't have some extreme different, or similarity. It was just the moon. The Bible says it is a light for the night. So I'm fine with that. If it is moving, or shifting position, or has a few faces showing differently to different parts of the world, it doesn't change anything, in my mind. It doesn't tell us what is, or isn't, the map of the earth. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:10:12 GMT
It doesn't matter how it operates. I am just saying that within the flat Earth model it won't match reality. Currently, in the real world you don't see the same face below and above the equator. Never Perhaps you're not aware that from the southern hemisphere the face is always seen upside down compared to what we see in the northern hemisphere. It is not like you can choose which face to see on different days. Looking at the moon most of my life, I would even have to question how people are getting this information that it looks this very specific way here, and there. I've lived in North America (above the equator) and South America (below the equator). The moon didn't have some extreme different, or similarity. It was just the moon. The Bible says it is a light for the night. So I'm fine with that. If it is moving, or shifting position, or has a few faces showing differently to different parts of the world, it doesn't change anything, in my mind. It doesn't tell us what is, or isn't, the map of the earth. Jess, The face of the Moon is upside down in the southern hemisphere. This is not a mystery or a conspiracy. It is what it is. This image is from the Northern hemisphere  The image below is from the Southern hemisphere  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:12:24 GMT
Looking at the moon most of my life, I would even have to question how people are getting this information that it looks this very specific way here, and there. I've lived in North America (above the equator) and South America (below the equator). The moon didn't have some extreme different, or similarity. It was just the moon. The Bible says it is a light for the night. So I'm fine with that. If it is moving, or shifting position, or has a few faces showing differently to different parts of the world, it doesn't change anything, in my mind. It doesn't tell us what is, or isn't, the map of the earth. Jess, The face of the Moon is upside down from the southern hemisphere. This is not a mystery or a conspiracy. It is what it is. So maybe it's spinning like a record. Records being those vinyl things before digital media, and CD's, and cassettes. Maybe it's spinning like a record, though more slowly, so that at certain times, locations, seasons, it appears a certain way. This still doesn't prove or disprove any of the maps. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:22:45 GMT
OK... LIT, I think I have a little contribution. Speaking of "language barrier", you made me realize, maybe only subconsciously, that the reason I was not understanding you is that you are talking about seeing the same "face". This might not be the best term, and in fact a misleading one. Maybe what mislead me (and maybe others too) is that by "face" think of our face. Imagine if your face were the moon, and it was moving along the equator. Would South Africa and Europe see the same "face"? I don't think so. I think South Africa would be seeing the left side and Europe the right side (or viceversa). Now if my face were a luminous ball, and moving along the equator, it would certainly look as luminous and as spherical from those two equidistant vantage points. Is that what you meant? Instead of saying "face" could the term "shape" be used? |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:23:27 GMT
Jess, The face of the Moon is upside down from the southern hemisphere. This is not a mystery or a conspiracy. It is what it is. So maybe it's spinning like a record. Records being those vinyl things before digital media, and CD's, and cassettes. Maybe it's spinning like a record, though more slowly, so that at certain times, locations, seasons, it appears a certain way. This still doesn't prove or disprove any of the maps. This is what Matt said, but it does disprove a lot. It is spinning, but at any given moment it shows a specific face which should be different from that seen inside the circle, but it is not at all times. Anyway, I see that you guys are not interested in this, so let's drop it. I hoped Matt would come back with another simulation this time using my model, but he disappeared. As for the map, the Azimuthal equidistant map is a huge distortion. For one, the circumference of the equator in reality is 24902 miles (40075 km). That means that travelling from Sydney to Santiago shouldn't take only 11 h 23 m, because it would be a much longer distance unless the planes fly 2-3 times faster. Of course, people say the flight is fake. It is easier to deny something than deal with it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:23:28 GMT
Okay, Doobie answered this question, on his website, not on IFERS. He said that people all over the world see the moon in different ways, from all over the world. There is no uniform "north is right side up, south is upside down". As if, cross the equator automatically makes the moon turn upside down. He said that even through a powerful telescope, you can't see the kind of "craters" that we attribute to the moon. A lot of that is NASA graphics. Even the two pictures that you posted, they look like graphics to me. They don't look like real-life photos. So we don't see things that uniformly from north vs. south. We're relying on someone to tell us that "this isn't questionable, it is just fact that the moon is upside down below the equator". That isn't true even logically, since crossing a line wouldn't just change things like that. Correct me if I am incorrect. I will accept it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:27:55 GMT
Me, too, we're just trying to simplify your assertions. Correct us if we are wrong, and let us all agree to disagree, or accept that for now we do not understand you.
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:28:13 GMT
OK... LIT, I think I have a little contribution. Speaking of "language barrier", you made me realize, maybe only subconsciously, that the reason I was not understanding you is that you are talking about seeing the same "face". This might not be the best term, and in fact a misleading one. Maybe what mislead me (and maybe matt, and others too) is that by "face" think of our face. Imagine if your face were the moon, and it was moving along the equator. Would South Africa and Europe see the same "face"? I don't think so. I think South Africa would be seeing the left side and Europe the right side (or viceversa). Now if my face were a luminous ball, and moving along the equator, it would certainly look as luminous and as spherical from those two equidistant vantage points. Is that what you meant? No, it is the correct term. I gave you pictures to illustrate what I mean(please see them below). You see exactly the same face given your longitude is the same, but below the equator it is upside down. Northern hemisphere Southern hemisphere |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:34:23 GMT
Well, thanks for the feedback. And for now let us take a break.
I don't mean to wear you out by saying what I don't understand, and, besides, I have already said it. I will keep reading the thread, and see what others write, to try and understand your concept further.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:35:27 GMT
Well, thanks for the feedback. And for now let us take a break. I don't mean to wear you out by saying what I don't understand, and, besides, I have already said it. I will keep reading the thread, and see what others write, to try and understand your concept further. I'm not understanding it either, but those moon pictures look like graphics, not real photos. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:41:33 GMT
Well, I used my (small) telescope and I can see those craters on the moon, too. I also suspect it is a ball, by observing it.
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Post by matt on Apr 8, 2015 18:42:35 GMT
I'm sorry, LIT, I am not sure how to use your picture! You have the moon on the opposite side of the world where it cannot be seen by those points in Turkey and South Africa, so I'm not sure how to picture it still. I also think my moon really is upside down... If we were in person maybe we could do better. International Flat Earth Symposium |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:44:28 GMT
"My perspective", that video maker, saved the day for me. If the moon is rotating above the flat earth, near the equator, then those "below" would see it upside down from those "above".
Draw a line down the middle of a room. You stand on one side, and put another person on the other side. Then put a picture of grandma on the ceiling, right in the middle where you drew the line.
Grandma will be upside down for somebody. With two people standing on a flat surface.
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:45:09 GMT
Okay, Doobie answered this question, on his website, not on IFERS. He said that people all over the world see the moon in different ways, from all over the world. There is no uniform "north is right side up, south is upside down". As if, cross the equator automatically makes the moon turn upside down. He said that even through a powerful telescope, you can't see the kind of "craters" that we attribute to the moon. A lot of that is NASA graphics. Even the two pictures that you posted, they look like graphics to me. They don't look like real-life photos. So we don't see things that uniformly from north vs. south. We're relying on someone to tell us that "this isn't questionable, it is just fact that the moon is upside down below the equator". That isn't true even logically, since crossing a line wouldn't just change things like that. Correct me if I am incorrect. I will accept it. Ok, you're right that it is not like when you cross the equator it suddenly flips. That is a myth obviously. I guess it is not clear what a face means. The moon has specific features and in the northern hemisphere you can never see, for instance, Tycho(crater) on top of it, but you do in the southern hemisphere.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:46:11 GMT
LIT, we just crossed lines, we're all posting very fast. Please look at my "picture of grandma" post, and see what you think. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 18:47:43 GMT
I'm sorry, LIT, I am not sure how to use your picture! You have the moon on the opposite side of the world where it cannot be seen by those points in Turkey and South Africa, so I'm not sure how to picture it still. I also think my moon really is upside down... If we were in person maybe we could do better. International Flat Earth Symposium What is the program you're using to simulate it? |
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Post by matt on Apr 8, 2015 18:48:27 GMT
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Post by matt on Apr 8, 2015 18:50:26 GMT
"My perspective", that video maker, saved the day for me. If the moon is rotating above the flat earth, near the equator, then those "below" would see it upside down from those "above". Draw a line down the middle of a room. You stand on one side, and put another person on the other side. Then put a picture of grandma on the ceiling, right in the middle where you drew the line. Grandma will be upside down for somebody. With two people standing on a flat surface. Excellent, Jess. That is what I was trying to say! And you did not even need to post a video. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 18:51:28 GMT
"My perspective", that video maker, saved the day for me. If the moon is rotating above the flat earth, near the equator, then those "below" would see it upside down from those "above". Draw a line down the middle of a room. You stand on one side, and put another person on the other side. Then put a picture of grandma on the ceiling, right in the middle where you drew the line. Grandma will be upside down for somebody. With two people standing on a flat surface. Excellent, Jess. That is what I was trying to say! And you did not even need to post a video. Well I can't take any of the credit. I stole it from "my perspective". I wish that guy/gal would use a real name. |
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Post by matt on Apr 8, 2015 18:55:38 GMT
Ok, one more on the moon. I have been more aware lately of what is around me. Did anyone ever recognize that the moon, in its shadowy areas (the dark areas we see at night) is actually the color of the sky in the daytime? Is that an illusion or do the nasa-types have an explanation for that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 19:07:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 19:11:10 GMT
Ah thank you. He's always got the math going on. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 19:38:48 GMT
Jess, Matt, I know about Rory Cooper's videos, but you all misunderstood completely what I was saying. That example with the Moon doesn't work the way you think it does. If the equator is a circle in the middle of a flat disc, at certain times the orientation of the Moon features seen from let's say South Africa would be identical to those observed from Poland. That is the Tycho crater would be on the bottom of the Moon instead of on the top from your perspective. It works only irregularly, but not at all times, and this is a problem. If the equator was a straight line cutting the disc in two halves, it would work perfectly, but in the flat Earth model the equator is a circle, so it can't possibly work the way it works in reality at all times. It is very different on a globe.
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Post by LIT on Apr 8, 2015 19:44:17 GMT
Ok, one more on the moon. I have been more aware lately of what is around me. Did anyone ever recognize that the moon, in its shadowy areas (the dark areas we see at night) is actually the color of the sky in the daytime? Is that an illusion or do the nasa-types have an explanation for that? That is what I found. Color of the Moon |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 20:31:29 GMT
Jess, Matt, I know about Rory Cooper's videos, but you all misunderstood completely what I was saying. That example with the Moon doesn't work the way you think it does. If the equator is a circle in the middle of a flat disc, at certain times the orientation of the Moon features seen from let's say South Africa would be identical to those observed from Poland. That is the Tycho crater would be on the bottom of the Moon instead of on the top from your perspective. It works only irregularly, but not at all times, and this is a problem. If the equator was a straight line cutting the disc in two halves, it would work perfectly, but in the flat Earth model the equator is a circle, so it can't possibly work the way it works in reality at all times. It is very different on a globe. No, I don't think that is quite right. If the moon consistently held position and just circled in that position, then Poland and South Africa get their own views of "grandma's picture", distinct. If there are a few times that this "rule" is broken, let's remember that the moon is working by seasons, and so its flight isn't always the same. That's why I go back to what I had said in the beginning, that we don't know enough to make assumptions about anything. |
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Perhaps you're not aware that from the southern hemisphere the face is always seen upside down compared to what we see in the northern hemisphere. It is not like you can choose which face to see on different days. 
