the jesus problem from eric

I do not understand this thread....

Yes, Eric has a Jesus problem.

He lies and lies, even when proven wrong.

Check this thread

ifers.boards.net/thread/155/krishna-general-ancient-religious-figures

Have a look:

People confuse true Christianity with Catholicism.

They are two different Jesus'. A true one, and the false one that the world will accept as their world leader.

matt

I am not sure if you guys are familiar with the idea that the chronology is fake. I should open a thread on that. Apparently, the widely accepted chronology of events is wrong.

Hi Matt,

I can't quote using my phone as it's playing up etc...

I also don't have much time to spend on this unfortunately, so please don't think I'm being short and blunt.

But I will have to totally disagree with your statement as Catholism being the true Christianity. The only thing they have christian is the *name*, but by the fruits you will know them. And the Church is full of pagan imaginary. It's a counterfeit christianity, which damages true
Christianity.


www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm

DP

preciousjewel

Let me ask you - if someone came out with a story about your family, your loved ones, that was very negative, hateful and harmful to your good name, how would you feel if everyone listened to that person (or persons) and believed them immediately without ever consulting you or your family for another side to the story? Any honest person would want to know both sides of the story to understand if the opinions that were ruinous to your reputation were, in fact, true.

Do people do this with what they hear about the Catholic Church, or do they buy into the lies because they already have a hatred for the Church, or the lies fit the negative opinion they harbor? An honest person will, instead, after watching such a film loaded with lies, excessive drama and hatred, want to know - hmm, what do Catholics have to say about these things? Are these things true according to the group that the film is attacking? It is very convenient and easy to hate. It takes much more work and virtue to find the truth.

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Yes, this film is full of unfounded assumptions and the twisting of Sacred Scripture not to mention taking historical events and also twisting them to the author’s own agenda. I will not take the time to go into all the lies, but here are just two:

<<The “Dark Ages” were the time when the Bible was forbidden.>> Untrue.
The only Bibles during that time were copied - by hand - by Catholic monks, which could take a lifetime to accomplish. No one could get a bible into his hand because there was no printing press to produce it - all was copied by hand. The Bible was taught to the people during every Mass. Most people could not read anyway, so all learning of Christianity was by - preaching.  The "hearing" of the word.  

Next, 
The Albigensians according to the movie were holy Bible-believers and St. Dominic was the enemy. They forgot to mention that the Albigensians believed in a good god who created the spiritual, and in an evil god who created the material world, including the human body, which is therefore under his control.

The good god created the soul but the evil god imprisoned it in the body, which is evil from its source. To deliver souls from this evil and punishment, the good god, "God", sent Jesus Christ who according to the Albigensians is only a creature. Since the body is evil He could assume only a celestial one. Hmm, does that sound Christian - does it come from the Bible?  Very convenient for them to leave these details out, no?

Oh, here is more - the Albigensians commended suicide especially by starvation, their "endura", and in general, the extinction of human life, and advocated abstention from marriage, preferring concubinage as less evil. They abhorred pregnancy as that brought more life (physical matter) into the world, which, to them, was evil. As the Albigensians were such a dangerous menace to governments and society generally, and resisted all attempts at their conversion, a crusade was organized by barons from France, Germany, and Belgium against Raymond VI, Count of Toulouse, who favored them.

After defeating them, the barons, contrary to the request of Pope Innocent III, continued a war of conquest.

If they were the "True bible-believing" Christians, according to the movie, who would want to be one anyway?

Shucks, I wish they included those details in the film too - perhaps more honest people could have a balanced understanding of the facts. There is more - much more, but I do not have time.

Because the film-makers used the Albigensians as such an important testimony against the Church, without including the most necessary, and quite frankly, damning, information against the Albigensians, the whole rest of the movie should be held in the greatest suspicion!

If one truly wants to know the truth, he will always find it. 

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In the end, the bottom line is this:

The Freemasons hate the Catholic Church and saw Her as its greatest enemy.  Hmmm.....
Read here about their document, the "Alta Vendita”:
freemasonrywatch.org/alta_vendita.html

The Communists hate the Catholic Church. They tried to destroy Her by infiltration - read about former Communist agent, Bella Dodd:
www.savethemales.ca/160303.html

Satanists hate the Catholic Church so much that they use a ritual that is the inversion of the Catholic Mass - not the new “mass" that was created in the 60’s by outsiders, because it is not Catholic, but the Mass that originated in St. Peter’s time when he was in Rome - the one we have used for almost 2,000 years. Satanists need a validly-consecrated Host from a valid Catholic Mass on which to perform their disgusting rituals. I will not provide links to satanic sources.

People who want to hate the Catholic Church can find good company with the above groups!  

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EDIT:
If you want to hear the truth and a refutation of the lies in the film here are some links - they are all audio, but well worth listening to:

Lamp in the Dark Refutation part 1

Lamp in the Dark Refutation part 2

Lamp in the Dark Refutation part 3

I'm sorry Matt, but the Catholic Church has done more than enough damage throughout history to tarnish their own name. They don't need me for that.

You would have to be wilfully blind to ignore their paganism, pedophilia, and corruption. If a family member that I love did any of those things, then I would be calling them out on it as well.

God says put your trust in Him only, and not trust man, as they can deceive you. You don't need organized religion. The Bible says you need a simple faith in Christ only.

preciousjewel, I understand your viewpoints above, but I hope you would have read the links I provided to give you more information, as well as the three audio links that showed the lies that were rampant through the movie you asked me to watch.

I have been trying to show that what is called the Catholic Church today is not.  There are also many who hate the Church who have purposely lied about historical events - this is what we would call a "conspiracy".  According to your earlier posts here, you believe that much of what is said about the Jews is a lie to hurt their name, where many would argue against that.  Are you willing to give the same lenience to the Catholic Church, until you know the whole story?  I hope so.  Here is an article about what happened.  I will paste in the whole thing in case some may not want to click a link.

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Infiltration of the Catholic Church? [There is no question. It happened.]

July 28, 2003
By Toby Westerman
Copyright 2003 International News Analysis Today
www.inatoday.com

Clerical abuse against children, charges of Mafia-style cover-ups, and the destruction of Catholic moral teaching are tearing at the Catholic Church, and turning the 2,000 year-old faith into fodder for lowbrow comedy.

An affidavit recently obtained by INA Today attributes the Catholic Church's present state of collapse to a calculated attack beginning decades ago, with initial successes appearing in the 1960s.

The affidavit affirms that Communist Party organizer and high Party official, Bella Dodd, made public statements during the decade of the 1960s declaring that the Catholic priesthood was infiltrated by numerous Communist agents, whose mission was "to destroy the Catholic Church from within."

Dodd later returned to the Catholic Church and published a book about her experiences, entitled School of Darkness (out of print at present).

"In the late 1920's and 1930's, directives were sent from Moscow to all Communist Party organizations. In order to destroy the Catholic Church from within, party members were to be planted in seminaries and within diocesan organizations," Dodd stated according to the affidavit.

"I, myself, put some 1,200 men in Catholic seminaries," Dodd publicly declared.

Dodd did not include these remarks concerning her activities directed against the Catholic Church in her book, which was first published in 1954, leading some to question whether the remarks were actually made.

In an exclusive interview with INA Today, Catholic philosopher Dr. Alice von Hildebrand confirmed that Dodd had made the remarks, and provided the affidavit from Paul and Johnine Leininger, who witnessed Dodd making the public statements.

When contacted by INA Today, Mrs. Johnine Leininger stated that there were others who could also verify that Dodd made the statements regarding infiltration into Catholic seminaries.

Dr. von Hildebrand told INA Today that Dodd had earlier refrained from detailing Communist efforts to undermine the Catholic priesthood at the request of Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, the individual responsible for bringing Dodd back into the Church.

Dodd's infiltrators would have reached their highest positions of power and influence in the early to mid-60's, the period which saw the initial doctrinal and moral collapse within the Catholic Church.

The process of Communist infiltration into Catholic seminaries, which Dodd described in her public talks, would have been part of a larger plan called "Outstretched Hand."

Communist Party archives in Moscow confirm the existence of operation "Outstretched Hand," and define its goals, according to Herbert Romerstein, author of the seminal work on Soviet espionage in the United States before, during, and after WWII, "The Venona Secrets."

At least one Soviet agent directly involved in "Outstretched Hand" is identifiable.

One document in Moscow's Soviet archives reveals that the Communist Party had infiltrated several influential Catholic organizations, including the Holy Name Society, the largest parish-oriented Catholic men's group, which is devoted to increasing reverence for the name of God and to good works in the Church and in society in general. A Holy Name Society chapter exists in almost every Catholic parish in the U.S.

The same document acknowledged the existence of a certain "Party comrade," who was "well known" in "conservative Irish Catholic circles" and who held offices "in various Catholic organizations…"

The "Party comrade" operated in a key parish which provided "leadership" and shaped "the policies of most of the reactionary and anti-Communist campaigns that are now developing in the Catholic world," according to the Soviet file.

Romerstein also recounts in The Venona Secrets that the staff of the Catholic anti-Communist publication entitled Wisdom, produced by a priest of the Paulist order, was infiltrated, and unknowingly employed two Communist agents in influential positions.

The Party boasted that one of their agents was "widely known to be a conservative in Irish circles," and was a staff correspondent for Wisdom. Romerstein identified the Party member and Soviet agent as Jeremiah F. O'Carroll, who, in 1930, was the president of the Irish Emergency Relief organization.

Although O'Carroll was identified as a spy in 1938, he remained listed as a staff correspondent for Wisdom at least until March 1939.

The second Soviet agent who worked for Wisdom remains unknown to this day.

The most recent - and notorious - incident of hostile infiltration into the U.S. Catholic Church is that of veteran FBI agent and convicted spy, Robert Hanssen. While placing his nation in mortal danger through his espionage activities, Hanssen also was believed to be a fervent Catholic.

Hanssen led a double life of betrayal, while serving as a spy for both the Soviet and "reformed" regimes in Moscow.

Although the precise extent of Communist infiltration of which Dodd spoke remains unknown, the effects are recognizable. Today, traditional Catholic beliefs, practices, and morality are not merely questioned, but are denounced and scorned by many of those who should protect and profess Church doctrine.

Mrs. Leininger, who confirmed Dodd's statements, told INA Today that she knows of several priests who faithfully taught the Catholic religion until they became bishops or were promoted to other influential posts, and then immediately exhibited hostility to that same faith which they had previously professed.

Leininger described these priests as "sleepers," a term designating individuals or groups who carry out their espionage function only at a selected time. Before becoming active, the "sleeper" will refrain from any espionage or subversive functions.

Dodd's infiltrators -- those who lost or never actually held the Catholic faith -- would have been the mentors of the present generation of Catholic priests and bishops, in effect conducting their own "School of Darkness."

Sorry Matt, unless it's written in texts then I can't look into it, as I can't view youtube or hear it, as my computer is down.

I have the actual dvd that I linked. And it showed how the Catholic Church went on a book burning, plus horrific killing spree.

I tend to believe those people that were killed trying to protect the true Bible texts. As they had no hidden agendas, but the love of the truth only.

You can see at how wealthy the Church is! It's the richest religion ever. And you are trying to say (when you know about conspiracies), that there isn't any in that Church? It goes against true Christianity on so many levels!

The Bible says not to call anyone but God Father, there's no nuns mentioned in the Bible, talking to the dead is forbidden- praying to the saints etc... The list goes on.

Ok, I will wait till your computer rises and then we can continue.  Your DVD is full of lies and calumny and those things are sins, so I hope you will refrain from spreading false information. 

Wealth is not a sign of evil. Wealth can be used for good.  Lazarus' family was wealthy - many of Jesus' friends were wealthy. You are probably wealthy compared to poorer people who are trying to live the Gospel.

There is a conspiracy to destroy the Church and it is going on right now.

Have you never called your dad "Father"?  Do you also pluck out your eyeball if you see something evil? Do you hate your father and mother, etc?  Jesus said to do those things, no?  Or perhaps he was speaking in a Hebraic colloquialism.

preciousjewel,

From your statement, I am not sure if you are asking me or telling me.  I will try to assume that you are asking a question. The Catholic Faith absolutely does not use pagan imagery or idols. To have sacred images to look at and lift the mind and heart to God is not idolatry. No one bows down to worship any image - please do not accuse us of that. We worship the Holy Trinity - one God, and Jesus Christ, God-made-Man. Anyone saying otherwise is a liar or severely/deliberately misinformed.


Have you ever read the stories of the Jesuits coming to the New World and bringing the Gospel to the Indians? Or the Flathead Indians who were told by their chief, in prophecy, that the Blackrobes were coming and would bring them the true religion? Did you know that those Indians would have nothing to do with the Protestants who were trying to “convert” them, but only trusted Catholic priests?  That tribe was already a peaceful and God-fearing tribe in their own way, and not violent and murderous like the Iroquois, for example. They actually believed in monogamous marriage and were ready for the Truth of the Gospel. Have you ever read about Fr. de Smet? St. Isaac Jogues? St. John de Brebeuf?(etc..) Read about Jesuit saints and see what you think - if you want the truth about them, I mean. How many Jesuits sacrificed their lives to brutal torture to try to bring the Gospel to savages and save their souls.  St. Robert Bellarmine defended the Bible against Galileo.  He was a Jesuit.

The Jesuit oath was MADE UP by a man named Robert Ware, whose most famous forgeries were "The Jesuit Oath" and "Foxes and Firebrands." The former is like "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," in that it falsely constructs a sort of manifesto of the Jesuits, describing their intention to "wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals...to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth" and that it is still used to condemn Catholics today, either by unlearned people who never heard that it was fake, or by malicious people who tell the gullible about it.


It is not about whether you believe what the DVD says or how much you hate the Catholic Church. It is about - IS THIS REALLY TRUE, and are you going to take the time to find out? If you are disseminating lies against something good, then that is horrible. These ARE lies and it IS horrible. SHAME EVEN MORE on the makers of these movies who deceive the simple or stoke the flames of the malicious.

We can discuss popes and nuns, etc. and I can clearly show you where it comes from - if you want to know.  But first please tell me how any "bible-believing christian" can read his bible and believe in:

1. Divorce
2. Fornication
3. Abortion
4. Contraception 
And, yes, they do believe in these things - most, if not all - believe in divorce and contraception.  Please prove to me that you absolutely reject these horrors, as the bible states we must, and I will proceed to explain popes and nuns to you. 

As far as all the “evils”, if all you want to focus your eyes and mind on is evil, then you will get evil. Do you know anything about the Popes in the catacombs who were martyrs for the Faith? Pagan Rome killed them. The first 33 popes were martyrs for the Faith. They gave up their lives for Jesus Christ. Do you know how many thousands and thousands of martyrs for the Catholic Faith were tortured and killed by pagan rulers over the centuries - and you accuse us of having paganism? Have you ever taken the time to read writings that are positive about the Catholic Church?  There is plenty of evidence out there that you could actually easily find yourself to show how much you have written above is false, lies and misinformation. But the important question is - do you want to find out?  Maybe if you stop reading blatantly (and maliciously) anti-Catholic websites, you might have a chance to find out what actually is true!

Any "bible-believer" who claims to "read" the Bible, would sadly find out that he, in fact, does not follow it as faithfully as he thinks. Pick-and-choose is what the so-called “bible-believer” really is. “I like these verses, so I will follow them. I do not like these verses, so I will pretend they do not exist.” His faith is not Divine faith, but only a human faith.  His "faith" fits his lifestyle.  That is why there are so many "churches" out there believing thousands of different things.  The Catholic Church has always only had One Faith.  Period.  It, in 2,000 years, has never changed. The Catholic Faith is the only Christian faith that truly believes, uses, understands and teaches the Bible as it was given to us. And for those who have eyes and ears to see and hear, it can be proven. The blind and deaf will not want to know.

Matt-

 But first please tell me how any "bible-believing christian" can read his bible and believe in: