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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 12:31:35 GMT
Thanks Matt for explaining that. I now see what you meant by it. You know I'm posting the below but it pains me. Why, you may ask? Because I can tell you honestly believe in your religion, and I'm not wanting to hurt you. But for me to ignore the obvious pagan links in Catholicism would be wrong. My phone provider gives a little extra data on Sundays- in case you're thinking how I got to view the 2 clips.  |
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 12:32:06 GMT
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 12:49:01 GMT
What would you say, then, is the foundation of truth?
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Solo Scriptures- The Bible is my final authority, and not man.
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Post by matt on May 3, 2015 12:57:06 GMT
What would you say, then, is the foundation of truth? ------------- Solo Scriptures- The Bible is my final authority, and not man. You have given me much more homework than I have given you. I hope you have or will read and research those things that I have posted above, even though they disagree with your stance - please. I will have to take a long time to view these videos - I may age a few years before I get back to you… For the "Sola Scriptura" position - you may be surprised that the Bible does not agree with you… 1 Tim. 3:15 - if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. The Church (not a building but THE CHURCH) is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible. It cannot be found anywhere in the Bible that the Bible is the sole root of truth. |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 13:07:15 GMT
Thanks on behalf of everyone for all this documentation you are providing in support of your point of view.
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Post by matt on May 3, 2015 21:14:03 GMT
A lot of research about the pagan connect has been exposed here. But you may have comebacks denying it, but our eyes can see the visuals and that is enough to prove the pagan link. There's no way around that. These prove nothing. I will respond to these later because I still have a lot of disinformation to wade through - it is a veritable cesspool of exaggerations and lies and will take time to address. I will leave you with this for the time being. If the Catholic Church is so into paganism, then why was she responsible for destroying or transforming pagan culture everywhere she brought the Gospel? Today in the Catholic Church is the feast of the Finding of the Holy Cross of Jesus. Here is an excerpt from the feast and please note the references to pagan (demonic) gods: Again, I will address the other lies as I am able to make time for it. Please, preciousjewel, take what I am saying seriously. These things you are following are scandalous and extremely unChristian in their hatred for what is good and sacred. These people do not want the truth, but to spread hate and lies. Please don't be one of them. |
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 22:36:13 GMT
I understand Matt about the time restraints, but the 2 clips are very short. One is only around 5 mins, and the other a bit longer.
Also the other links are only one page reads.
They summarise it way better what I have been trying to say.
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 22:51:43 GMT
If the Catholic Church is so into paganism, then why was she responsible for destroying or transforming pagan culture everywhere she brought the Gospel?
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They didn't destroy paganism, but created a mismatched *pagan christanity* as they accepted for the cultures to keep their pagan ways, plus threw in a false jesus and Mary worship in the mix.
Just like aspartame tastes like sugar, it's not the real thing. But a toxic poison. So too is Catholicism to true Bible believing Christianity.
Please don't take this personally, but just like the globe lie, we the people need to expose frauds.[br
The other thing that really bothers me is that people can't differentiate between the truths in the Bible, and what Catholicism has brought to the table. True Christianity gets all the blame for what Catholicism has done now, and in the past.
]
Hey also, I remember you saying something about Catholics and the FE up thread. ... but in one of the clips, there's lots of images of globes. Just thought that was interesting.
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 23:26:32 GMT
Matt
For the "Sola Scriptura" position - you may be surprised that the Bible does not agree with you…
1 Tim. 3:15 -
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
The Church (not a building but THE CHURCH) is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the Bible. It cannot be found anywhere in the Bible that the Bible is the sole root of truth.
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Me-
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 12
Acts 17
THE CHURCH, is the body of Christ which includes the saved, and reborn again person.
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Post by preciousjewel on May 3, 2015 23:37:12 GMT
This below answers the above Sola Scriptura position that true Christianity upholds. If you don't read the Bible yourself, and are relying man to interpret it for you, then you are placing yourself in *their* hands and you become vulnerable to manipulation, and ultimately being mislead. The Bible says do not trust man. And do not confess your sins to man. Again Catholicism goes against the Bible there. We invite all those who rely on the organization to interpret the Bible for them including Orthodox, Catholics, and their twin organization, the Jehovah's Witnesses, to *think for themselves*. If you have the intelligence to read the newspaper, why not the Bible? www.bible.ca/sola-scriptura-proof-texts.htm. |
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Post by matt on May 4, 2015 11:49:25 GMT
This below answers the above Sola Scriptura position that true Christianity upholds. If you don't read the Bible yourself, and are relying man to interpret it for you, then you are placing yourself in *their* hands and you become vulnerable to manipulation, and ultimately being mislead. The Bible says do not trust man. And do not confess your sins to man. Again Catholicism goes against the Bible there. We invite all those who rely on the organization to interpret the Bible for them including Orthodox, Catholics, and their twin organization, the Jehovah's Witnesses, to *think for themselves*. If you have the intelligence to read the newspaper, why not the Bible? www.bible.ca/sola-scriptura-proof-texts.htmHow funny. "Do not trust man". You certainly trust these men who write the web pages and make the movies above. I am sorry, but what you wrote is a lie. Really. James 5:16 "Confess therefore your sins one to another"
John 20:22-23 "When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
How does a man forgive sins unless they are confessed? I thought men could not forgive sins! Men are forgiving sins. That is in the Bible. They are commanded to forgive sins by Jesus Himself in the Bible! There is only one place where MEN, by the power of Christ, forgive SINS - the Catholic Church.Again, "bible-only" people do not read and believe the whole bible - only the bits and pieces that support their personal lifestyle or belief choice. And if they are exposed for a fraud in their "bible-belief", they will twist the other scriptures presented to them, to make the scriptures themselves bow down to their own personal agenda. Jesus told us to do ALL that He commanded, not just what suited us. Bible-believers are really not bible-believers. As far as the video is concerned, he uses Deut. 4: 15-18 to show how graven image of animals are forbidden. Yes forbidden to worship. So explain the Bronze Serpent placed upon a pole - Numbers 21:9 Anyone who looked at it was cured of the snake’s venom. They didn’t worship it, but a snake is certainly a “pagan” symbol. Jesus even referenced the brazen serpent as a symbol of Himself in the Gospel. Disinformation and lying. Also, they are using many pictures from churches that were in use after 1958. I have said in the past that what is currently called the "catholic church" is an infiltrated monster run by masons and communists and teaching and doing the most horrible things. I will agree with you on anything you bring up against "today's church." But it is not the Catholic Church. The bishop’s mitre is not a fish, but is almost the same mitre used by the high priest in Hebrew worship at the temple, so you must also criticize the worship of the Old Covenant too by this symbol. Images of the sun: Jesus and God Himself are referred to many times in the Bible in relation to the sun: biblehub.com/malachi/4-2.htmBut unto you that fear my name, the Sun of justice shall arise, and health in his wings: and you shall go forth, and shall leap like calves of the herd. Luke 1:78 because of the tender mercy of our God, by which the rising sun will come to us from heaven 2 Samuel 23:4 he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings grass from the earth.' Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor; no good thing does he withhold from those whose walk is blameless. Isaiah 60:1 "Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you. To say that we worship the sun is to say that the Bible also condones worship of the sun. We worship the SON. That is all. This man makes ridiculous accusations and stretches things so far to find some “parallel” but he is disingenuous and trying to confuse the simple-minded. If you really want a comparison to paganism, try Eric’s forum over at IFERS and see how he relates the MOST BASIC BELIEFS of Christianity to pagan worship - even Jesus’ crucifixion. Are you ready to also follow his line? Are you ready to ingest all his pagan parallels to the most fundamental tenets of Christianity - tenets that you yourself believe? Do you want to take it up with Eric and all his garbage the way I have had to take it up with you and the unChristian and hateful websites you have pointed me to? Or is it just the Catholic Church you want to believe these horrible things about?
I believe there is an agenda here and I am weary of defending the truth with someone who seems bent on believing lies. You have not conceded one point for all the argumentation I have brought forth for you. Nothing. I can answer all the questions and bring rebuttals to the table, but you really will not care. So what is the point? It is futile. You want to hate the Church and that is what you will do. The bible is not the pillar and foundation of the truth, but the Church is. You got that one wrong. The bible nowhere in its contents says that IT is the sole rule of faith or foundation of truth. You made it up and the "men" who taught you made it up. The men you trusted for your interpretation of the Bible. That is where you should start, rather than pointing fingers and using their lies as your fuel. Your faith is based on a lie that someone pushed on you - bible only. You were taught this by a man. You listen to other men and they have told you what the Bible means. These men you have listened to are poisonous hypocrites. In his Second Letter to the Thessalonians, St. Paul is explicit: "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2:15). Bible only? Either by word of mouth or letter. Word of mouth is preaching not writing. The 12 apostles preached the Gospel - they did not write it down. Only St. Matthew and St. John. There was no Bible for over 300 years. Bible-alone is a lie. 2 Peter 3:16 - As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.The above quote from St. Peter is the final outcome of private and personal interpretation of the Bible - the "bible-only" religion. |
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Post by preciousjewel on May 4, 2015 23:59:35 GMT
I'm sorry Matt that this conversation is upsetting you. I do not wish it to be the case.
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Post by preciousjewel on May 5, 2015 0:01:45 GMT
Matt- Really. James 5:16 "Confess therefore your sins one to another"
John 20:22-23 "When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."
How does a man forgive sins unless they are confessed? I thought men could not forgive sins! Men are forgiving sins. That is in the Bible. They are commanded to forgive sins by Jesus Himself in the Bible! There is only one place where MEN, by the power of Christ, forgive SINS - the Catholic Church
---------------------- Me-. The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests. First Peter 2:5-9 describes believers as a “holy priesthood” and a “royal priesthood.”Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 both describe believers as “a kingdom of priests.” In the Old Covenant, the faithful had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15;10:21) and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3), deacons (1 Timothy 3), bishops (Titus 1:6-9), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests. When it comes to confession of sin, believers are told in1 John 1:9 to confess their sins to God. God is faithful and just to forgive our sins as we confess them to Him.James 5:16 speaks of confessing our trespasses “to one another,” but this is not the same as confessing sins to a priest as the Roman Catholic Church teaches. Priests / church leaders are nowhere mentioned in the context of James 5:16. Further,James 5:16 does not link forgiveness of sins with the confession of sins “to one another.” The Roman Catholic Church bases their practice of confession to a priest primarily on Catholic tradition. Catholic do point toJohn 20:23, “If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven." From this verse, Catholics claim that God gave the apostles the authority to forgive sins, and that authority was passed on to the successors of the apostles, i.e., the bishops and priests of the Roman Catholic Church. There are several problems with this interpretation. (1) John 20:23 nowhere mentions confession of sin. (2) John 20:23 nowhere promises, or even hints, that the authority to forgive sins would be passed on to the successors of the apostles. Jesus’ promise was specifically directed to the apostles. (3) The New Testament nowhere states that the apostles would even have successors to their apostolic authority. Similarly, Catholics point toMatthew 16:19 and18:18 (binding and loosing) as evidence for the Catholic Church’s authority to forgive sins. The same three above points apply equally to these Scriptures. Again, the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us.First Timothy 2:5 says, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/confession-sin-priest.html#ixzz3ZDVi7Pg6 And- www.kjvonly.org/james/may_sins_or_faults.htmlJames 5:16 in the King James Bible: Confess your faults [paraptoma] one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. It doesn't say sins. And- av1611.com/kjbp/kjv-dictionary/confess.html |
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Post by matt on May 5, 2015 13:51:31 GMT
preciousjewel, do not worry about whether I am upset. I am happy to discuss what I believe with you, but to deal with people (those who you have quoted, etc.,) who form a life-ministry of hate and lies, it is unsettling.
John 20:23 nowhere promises, or even hints, that the authority to forgive sins would be passed on to the successors of the apostles.
Jesus’ promise was specifically directed to the apostles.
If this is the case, then we must also apply this interpretation to Baptism: Mt. 28:18-20 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. Because you refuse to admit that the power to forgive or retain sins is to be passed on, then you must also conclude that baptism is not to be passed on as well. I am assuming, then, that bible-believers do not baptize, but only the Catholic Church baptizes, yes? Prove me wrong and you can show the hypocrisy of the statement above that you pulled from another man’s interpretation of the bible. Again, letting men interpret the bible for you... Who is Jesus with for all days until the end of the world? The Apostles? They all died. He clearly wants them to pass on the power to Baptize, just as He wanted them to pass on the power to forgive sins. Anyone who will not accede to this is not honest. You cannot have the one without the other without dishonesty. Confessing sins is actually taught in the Old Testament. Leviticus 19:20-22: “If a man lies carnally with a woman… they shall not be put to death… But he shall bring a guilt offering for himself to the Lord… And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the Lord for his sin which he has committed; and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him.” Because a priest was used as God’s instrument of forgiveness, it did not somehow take away from the fact that it was God who did the forgiving. God was the first cause of the forgiveness; the priest was the secondary, or instrumental cause. Confessing sins is taught in the New Testament: Matthew 3: 16 (and Mk 1: 5): “. . . they were baptized by him [John the Baptist] in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.” So he who prepared the way for Christ, listened to the confession of sin. The priest shares in the High Priesthood of Jesus Christ. John 20: 21-23: In his very first Resurrection appearance our Lord gives this awesome power to his Apostles with the words: “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” How could they forgive sins if they were not confessed? They could not. This authority comes through the gift of the Holy Spirit which precedes it. Jesus also told Peter (Mt. 16: 19) and then the other apostles (Mt. 18:18)? “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” This includes sins. Jesus allowed for us to receive spiritual consolation and counsel in this sacrament of the Church. We see this awesome power in other sacraments as well. What today we call the sacrament of the sick. Again, we look to Scripture: James 5: 14-17: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to one another …” Notice the command does not say confess your sins straight to God. Notice also who they are to go to the “elders” (bishops or priests—see the Acts 14: 23; 15: 2 for example). The following is from the Didache, an ancient historical writing of the Apostles. This shows that early Christians were in this practice as well. You will find, if you do some research of your own (I don’t recommend using the research of anti-Catholic writers as they are already ensconced in their own hatred) that the early Christians believed the same things that faithful Catholics believe today. Here is the passage: "Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life. . . . On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure" (Didache 4:14, 14:1 [A.D. 70-90]). The Greek word, “paraptóma,” does not only mean “faults” but also means “sins”. Look at any Greek dictionary and you will find that it is true. Faults, transgressions, sins - all the same. The man who you took this interpretation from was not being fair to you, but was following his own agenda, again, to make it fit his personal viewpoint. You told me we should not let other men interpret the bible for us, yet you keep doing it. Why? preciousjewel. Since I have had to wade through a sewer full of anti-Catholic lies and filth, why don’t you try to do me a favor and read some things that are Catholic and help you understand what we really believe? Would you not rather want to go to the source about who we are than go to someone who hates us? Let me know.
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