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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 2:57:05 GMT
Some say that Antarctica encircles the known world. Some say that Antarctica is the actual center of the earth, Like this fellow:
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Post by zero11s on Mar 31, 2015 3:37:14 GMT
Is there a Map of Antarctica as the center on the web?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 3:43:17 GMT
perhaps this helps  |
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Post by zero11s on Mar 31, 2015 4:25:05 GMT
according to this Map they could still fear to fall of the edge
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 9:44:38 GMT
according to this Map they could still fear to fall of the edge This map is just a projection with Antarctica in the center. It is called "South Pole Azimuthal Equidistant projection". Apart from the obvious distance and size discrepancies, you can't help but notice that sailing from North America to Asia would represent a major challenge. ( EDIT: What I mentioned is not an issue. In his most recent video he named the continents and it is clear that you can sail from North America to Asia, not sure if it was revised or not, but now it looks more plausible). Actually, I like that map more than the standard UN flat Earth map.  Here is another interesting projection:  |
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Post by zero11s on Mar 31, 2015 10:03:58 GMT
The argument with the climate is very convincing (harsh North/ nice South) also in his new video he mentions that the Map looks like the Dragon or Oroburos.
I think when the Sun has to go faster South of the Equator her Light expands to compensate for the speed in some way.
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 13:04:15 GMT
according to this Map they could still fear to fall of the edge Check out this article: Antarctica mountainsIf anyone ever wants to climb on top of Mt Vinson, these guys supposedly can help: Vinson MassifVINSONVINSON MassifMt VinsonIs anyone interested in going to Antarctica? I feel it would be great to go there one day.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 15:40:53 GMT
OK, let's test our ability to politely disagree with one another. Here's some evidence towards the mainstream flat earthers thesis that Antarctica is the edge and has no midnight sun. I am just a newbie, mostly rely on YouTube for my research, so don't expect book citations or formulas. Also, I am ignorant about what goes on in the sky. At any rate, I have looked for a while but could not find any videos of the midnight sun in Antarctica. I found dozens of videos with midnight sun in the Arctic instead, like this one: The ones I found about the midnight sun in Antarctica are very unconvincing to me and made me opt for the mainstream thesis regarding Antarctica: This is from ifers.boards.net: Thanks Acenci.  I have been doing more research and using different terms to see what comes up. Well this, I think, is what I have been looking for. If I am interpreting this wrongly, someone please let me know. This concerns the "midnight sun" that they say takes place in Antarctica (from timeanddate.com) "Similarly, the sun is visible for 24 hours at the South Pole between the September and March Equinox" ( WHICH INCLUDES OCTOBER ). (emphasis mine...) This footage is taken from: 1. Casey Station in Antarctica on the 3rd of October 2. Davis Station in Antarctica on the 1st of October 3. Mawson Station in Antarctica on the 3rd of October Every segment of this video shows the exact opposite of a "continuous midnight sun", thus disproving the claim that it is the same in Antarctica as it is in the Arctic. October, according to their claim, SHOULD be a continuous sun over the horizon. These clips show it clearly setting every night and at a very steep angle. All locations show definite periods of night when the sun sets and is completely out of sight - no "continuous sun". The sun is up at various times of the night, though, probably because of time zone problems, etc. But it definitely is not continuous. This is the timeframe - between September and March, that it should be continually "up" in the same manner that they attribute to the Arctic circle during its "summer". Also the first station - Casey Station - shows the sun setting at a pretty steep angle. Again, if I have something wrong in how I am interpreting it, please let me know. I have been searching for some proof against the "midnight continuous sun" claim that they have for Antarctica - perhaps this is it? |
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 16:07:44 GMT
OK, let's test our ability to politely disagree with one another. Here's some evidence towards the mainstream flat earthers thesis that Antarctica is the edge and has no midnight sun. I am just a newbie, mostly rely on YouTube for my research, so don't expect book citations or formulas. Also, I am ignorant about what goes on in the sky. ... Of course, you're free to believe whatever you want, but I consider the issue resolved I have already provided links debunking it. Why Antarctica is not the ice rim surrounding the Earth |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:19:01 GMT
So you mean that I am free to respectfully say what I believe. disagree with you, and you are not going to ban me for being a "shill"? That's a good start.
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 16:27:21 GMT
So you mean that I am free to respectfully say what I believe. disagree with you, and you are not going to ban me for being a "shill"? That's a good start. Yeah, you can have your own opinion even if you don't provide any substantial evidence. I cannot force you to agree with me, and certainly there is no point to ban you However, if you don't mind could you verbalize your reasons to believe Antarctica is the ice rim around the disc? It seems pretty clear to me that quite a few folks have been down there, and it is not exactly true that you cannot be one of them if you really want. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 16:41:03 GMT
Well, let others judge if my evidence is "substantial" or not (3 eloquent videos, with my explanation of them). Please don't belittle it, as I didn't belittle yours. I am a YouTube reseracher, and my evidence is videos. As I explained, I have a hard time reading books and long texts. Speaking of which, your post Why Antarctica is not the ice rim surrounding the Earth is overwhelming to me, and I apologize for not having read it yet. Let me explain my idea in simple terms. You say that you can go to Antarctica, but the proof would be that you circumnavigate it (or maybe go across it?). What is the guarantee that I am not in fact going to the edge by going to Antarctica? |
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 22:01:37 GMT
Well, let others judge if my evidence is "substantial" or not (3 eloquent videos, with my explanation of them). Please don't belittle it, as I didn't belittle yours. I am a YouTube reseracher, and my evidence is videos. As I explained, I have a hard time reading books and long texts. Speaking of which, your post Why Antarctica is not the ice rim surrounding the Earth is overwhelming to me, and I apologize for not having read it yet. Let me explain my idea in simple terms. You say that you can go to Antarctica, but the proof would be that you circumnavigate it (or maybe go across it?). What is the guarantee that I am not in fact going to the edge by going to Antarctica? My post actually sucks. I don't feel like writing down everything coherently. I pointed out a few things though which should make you a bit sceptical at least. I don't really care if many people have circumnavigated it. You can always argue that no one did. People even argue that no one has been to the South pole, because it doesn't exist. Such things can always be denied. What you cannot deny is that days get longer the closer you get to Antarctica during their summer. Some people would deny that too. But honestly, I don't see how the Sun can shine all around the periphery of the flat disc at the same time if Antarctica is the ice rim. The argument that Antarctica doesn't have midnight Sun is extremely weak, pretty much based on denial. If Antarctica has midnight Sun that means it is not the ice rim. We can end this debate once and for all. Just go to Antarctica and see for yourself. Why believe that you cannot go there when you have never tried? Of course, it is expensive, but do you really think everyone who has been there has signed a contract to lie? One really little piece of evidence - the midnight Sun - can change the whole flat Earth map. It would prove without the need for any other evidence that Antarctica is not the ice rim. I am sure that if someone did go and verify this for himself and shared this with the rest of the flat Earthers, they would still deny it I don't really like this approach as it doesn't lead to any development and pretty much we can continue like this forever and be wrong all along. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 22:10:10 GMT
Well, I will try to adapt to the approach you prefer, and to the other members as well, depending on their preferences.
By the way, let's try another approach.
Please show me your best videos of the midnight sun in Antarctica and then we could vote on this issue ("is Antarctica the wall?"), to end the debate democratically. We can also not vote, but it would an interesting way to encourage freedom of opinion, and at the same time obtain other people's opinion.
A quick poll for the other members could be:
1) how many have studied all the evidence?
2) allowing everyone to vote (even those who haven't gone through all your evidence) what theory convinces them the most
3) allow people to abstain
Speak your mind. All that matters is that we keep respecting each other.
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Post by LIT on Mar 31, 2015 22:55:38 GMT
Well, I will try to adapt to the approach you prefer, and to the other members as well, depending on their preferences. By the way, let's try another approach. Please show me your best videos of the midnight sun in Antarctica and then we could vote on this issue ("is Antarctica the wall?"), to end the debate democratically. We can also not vote, but it would an interesting way to encourage freedom of opinion, and at the same time obtain other people's opinion. A quick poll for the other members could be: 1) how many have studied all the evidence? 2) allowing everyone to vote (even those who haven't gone through all your evidence) what theory convinces them the most 3) allow people to abstain Speak your mind. All that matters is that we keep respecting each other. OK, we will make a poll. However, you do realize that a poll or democracy doesn't mean truth? When we're talking about correct or incorrect polls don't help. As I said, there is no need to provide evidence Antarctica is the wall, just need to provide evidence it has midnight Sun. That would automatically make it unlikely candidate for the wall. The question is what do you consider evidence. I think the reports of thousands of people who visited should be taken into account and not just denied because you don't want it to be true. On the other hand, there is no evidence that Antarctica doesn't have midnight Sun. None of the flat Earthers I know have been there, so why would the claim such a thing and be sure it is correct? That is why Eric calls everyone a shill, because he doesn't want people to trust anyone. That way he can control them easily. People won't trust anybody who criticizes Eric, therefore they would be under his influence. The thing is you should trust others too. When someone believes the Earth is round, it doesn't mean they are lying when they share something else.They are probably not lying when they say the Earth is round, because that is what they believe in. I have absolutely no reason to suspect all the people who have been to Antarctica of lying. By the way, Mark Sargent is very inconsistent. He supposedly believes that Antarctica is the ice wall, but at the same time trusts admiral Byrd and his testimony, as if a military guy would tell the truth if there is a conspiracy about Antarctica. Also, how exactly did they measure Antarctica if they never circumnavigated it? Admiral Byrd is a liar too? Actually, isn't it arrogant to call people who do something liars when we do absolutely nothing except talking about them? Just curious how this approach holds up. So we still need to use testimonies by people like admiral Byrd, but often we consider such people liars? By the way, what happened to our friend Cikljamas? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 4:34:51 GMT
Right.
Regarding the visits, if the visitors see midnight sun then it is evidence. How do visits exclude that it is the wall? It's not like you as soon as you land on its shores, you will see a wall.
I claim, as I said, that there seems to be no midnight sun, because the videos where they show it, are very few (just two) and all seem fake. That is my only evidence.
As we saw, by fighting for our ideas, we did not last very long on his website. He told Mark Sargent was a shill, but I simply kept insisting: "yes, probably but not certainly". By being myself, I was naturally banned. Even though I was a big fan of his.
Good point about the visitors, but as I said I don't see how visitors going there prove that it is not the wall.
Yes, as I said, Mark Sargent is "probably" a shill (too many interviews and too much talking about the "dome builders" and contradicting himself on the fact that he is a Christian) but not "certainly". There could be alternative explanations for all these "shill" clues.
Yes, let us cut down on the "liars" and "shills" accusations.
Regarding cikljamas, I told him his "best" friend from TFES (you) is waiting for him to join us. But after already inviting and succeeding in making him join IFERS, I can understand if he doesn't accept my advice.
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 6:23:11 GMT
Right. Regarding the visits, if the visitors see midnight sun then it is evidence. How do visits exclude that it is the wall? It's not like you as soon as you land on its shores, you will see a wall. I claim, as I said, that there seems to be no midnight sun, because the videos where they show it, are very few (just two) and all seem fake. That is my only evidence. As we saw, by fighting for our ideas, we did not last very long on his website. He told Mark Sargent was a shill, but I simply kept insisting: "yes, probably but not certainly". By being myself, I was naturally banned. Even though I was a big fan of his. Good point about the visitors, but as I said I don't see how visitors going there prove that it is not the wall. Yes, as I said, Mark Sargent is "probably" a shill (too many interviews and too much talking about the "dome builders" and contradicting himself on the fact that he is a Christian) but not "certainly". There could be alternative explanations for all these "shill" clues. Yes, let us cut down on the "liars" and "shills" accusations. Regarding cikljamas, I told him his "best" friend from TFES (you) is waiting for him to join us. But after already inviting and succeeding in making him join IFERS, I can understand if he doesn't accept my advice. Well, cikljamas won't like it here, because he would want to convert us in his own beliefs - zigzag theory etc. I am not pretending when I say that I don't understand it and think he is wrong about it. As for the midnight Sun, I thought it was clear that if there is midnight Sun in any part of Antarctica it can't be the ice wall due to the fact that the Sun cannot travel around in a circle above the Tropic of Capricorn and be visible in one place 24/7 for a few months. It is just physically impossible. Explain to me how this can work on the UN flat Earth map? If you don't feel like talking about it we can leave it for now, but I think it is important to clarify this issue as in my opinion the map is unfortunately absolutely discredited. I don't share your view that just because you don't like the videos and consider them fake all the witnesses who have been there lie about it too. Try to picture the Sun traveling in a circle and at the same time being visible from a certain location of the ice wall. It can't work, I think. After only a few hours the Sun would be far away and below the horizon due to the fact that the ice rim is very long and if the Sun goes around it would have to move on. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 12:47:25 GMT
"Wrong" is a strong word for him. Since we agree on mutual respect, why not just say that "for now I don't agree" or "for now I don't understand it", "I prefer this other theory...". You already argued enough in the past, and it hurt both of you. So let's avoid those heated discussions, and I hope he will join us.
Yeah, as soon as you prove to me that there is midnight sun in Antarctica, I will definitely have doubts about the official flat earth map. If the proof is in that long post, then never mind my comment here, and I will stop discussing this until I will read the whole thing. I hope the others will bring their opinions.
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 13:00:49 GMT
"Wrong" is a strong word for him. Since we agree on mutual respect, why not just say that "for now I don't agree" or "for now I don't understand it", "I prefer this other theory...". You already argued enough in the past, and it hurt both of you. So let's avoid those heated discussions, and I hope he will join us. Yeah, as soon as you prove to me that there is midnight sun in Antarctica, I will definitely have doubts about the official flat earth map. If the proof is in that long post, then never mind my comment here, and I will stop discussing this until I will read the whole thing. I hope the others will bring their opinions. Well, if you don't agree with something you can also say it is wrong in your opinion. All discussions are prone to be heated unless we're pretending that we agree on all topics. In fact, I don't like discussions which end with no clear conclusions at all. About Antarctica, in my opinion, there is nothing to prove. The idea that it is the ice wall is based on complete mistrust in all people who regularly go there, which I find grossly unreasonable and paranoid. As I said, in order to deny anything about Antarctica you need to have evidence. You don't buy the official evidence, so why not provide your own alternative evidence? Talking about it and saying it is a hoax is not evidence at all. Not only that, but I am puzzled why if anyone denies the official story about it they never go to check for themselves. It is almost as if the point here is to deny for the sake of argument. Please don't take this personally. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:11:39 GMT
"Wrong" is a strong word for him. Since we agree on mutual respect, why not just say that "for now I don't agree" or "for now I don't understand it", "I prefer this other theory...". You already argued enough in the past, and it hurt both of you. So let's avoid those heated discussions, and I hope he will join us. Yeah, as soon as you prove to me that there is midnight sun in Antarctica, I will definitely have doubts about the official flat earth map. If the proof is in that long post, then never mind my comment here, and I will stop discussing this until I will read the whole thing. I hope the others will bring their opinions. Well, if you don't agree with something you can also say it is wrong in your opinion. All discussions are prone to be heated unless we're pretending that we agree on all topics. In fact, I don't like discussions which end with no clear conclusions at all. About Antarctica, in my opinion, there is nothing to prove. The idea that it is the ice wall is based on complete mistrust in all people who regularly go there, which I find grossly unreasonable and paranoid. As I said, in order to deny anything about Antarctica you need to have evidence. You don't buy the official evidence, so why not provide your own alternative evidence? Talking about it and saying it is a hoax is not evidence at all. Not only that, but I am puzzled why if anyone denies the official story about it they never go to check for themselves. It is almost as if the point here is to deny for the sake of argument. Please don't take this personally. But that is the thing, that nobody regularly go there. There are just a few that have claimed to go, but it doesn't out-balance all the people that have contradictory accounts. It also doesn't account for the fact that it's pretty much closed. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 13:17:13 GMT
Well, if you don't agree with something you can also say it is wrong in your opinion. All discussions are prone to be heated unless we're pretending that we agree on all topics. In fact, I don't like discussions which end with no clear conclusions at all. About Antarctica, in my opinion, there is nothing to prove. The idea that it is the ice wall is based on complete mistrust in all people who regularly go there, which I find grossly unreasonable and paranoid. As I said, in order to deny anything about Antarctica you need to have evidence. You don't buy the official evidence, so why not provide your own alternative evidence? Talking about it and saying it is a hoax is not evidence at all. Not only that, but I am puzzled why if anyone denies the official story about it they never go to check for themselves. It is almost as if the point here is to deny for the sake of argument. Please don't take this personally. But that is the thing, that nobody regularly go there. There are just a few that have claimed to go, but it doesn't out-balance all the people that have contradictory accounts. It also doesn't account for the fact that it's pretty much closed. The people who have contradictory accounts have never been there. It is like saying that in the San Francisco Zoo there are no lions, even though their website says there are, and you have never been to the zoo yourself, but someone on the Internet told you so and you prefer to believe them than the zoo. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:19:13 GMT
But again, those tours are very limited. They're not going across it from one "side" to the other. They're not going in deep. They're skirting the coast, hitting on a little bit of land territory. They're not crossing it.
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 13:22:20 GMT
But again, those tours are very limited. They're not going across it from one "side" to the other. They're not going in deep. They're skirting the coast, hitting on a little bit of land territory. They're not crossing it. Of course, they are not going to cross it. How many people cross Africa from north to south each year? I would say probably few. Does it mean that Africa is the ice wall? Also, even if those tourists never cross Antarctica they should have seen the midnight Sun. Each year we have >30000 people seeing the midnight Sun in Antarctica, but we believe it doesn't happen there? Why? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:27:48 GMT
But again, those tours are very limited. They're not going across it from one "side" to the other. They're not going in deep. They're skirting the coast, hitting on a little bit of land territory. They're not crossing it. Of course, they are not going to cross it. How many people cross Africa from north to south each year? I would say probably few. Does it mean that Africa is the ice wall? Also, even if those tourists never cross Antarctica they should have seen the midnight Sun. Each year we have >30000 people seeing the midnight Sun in Antarctica, but we believe it doesn't happen there? Why? But the difference between Africa and Antarctica, is that I can travel to anywhere within Africa. Nobody will try to stop me, and it is populated from one end to the other. So that is just not a valid comparison. As for the sun issue, I was never convinced that this was proof of anything either way. How the sun operates, is also a mystery to a degree. Everything is a mystery. That's the whole aspect of this being a huge houdini kind of thing, that a few people have been hiding the truth of the place where our feet walk every day of our lives. I never considered sun or the lack of sun being there, as proof of anything. Because how the sun operates, is a guess at best. So that's not proof either way, to me. The flight issues are hard to conceal, though. A person knows when they've stopped for a secret refueling. A person knows when they are taken from the SH to hub in the NH and then back down to the SH. A person knows when all commercial flights can go over the north pole, but none, not one, ever goes over the "south pole". No commercial flight has ever, ever, ever gone over the "south pole". |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:36:31 GMT
LIT, please can you give me a quick YouTube video, where one of these 30,000 people ("Each year we have >30000 people seeing the midnight Sun in Antarctica") films the midnight sun? So far I could only find this one, which is fake: Please if you feel at any time that we antagonize you or make you feel attacked, let us know and we will speak more agreeably. This has the potential for turning into a heated argument.
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 13:41:10 GMT
Of course, they are not going to cross it. How many people cross Africa from north to south each year? I would say probably few. Does it mean that Africa is the ice wall? Also, even if those tourists never cross Antarctica they should have seen the midnight Sun. Each year we have >30000 people seeing the midnight Sun in Antarctica, but we believe it doesn't happen there? Why? But the difference between Africa and Antarctica, is that I can travel to anywhere within Africa. Nobody will try to stop me, and it is populated from one end to the other. So that is just not a valid comparison. As for the sun issue, I was never convinced that this was proof of anything either way. How the sun operates, is also a mystery to a degree. Everything is a mystery. That's the whole aspect of this being a huge houdini kind of thing, that a few people have been hiding the truth of the place where our feet walk every day of our lives. I never considered sun or the lack of sun being there, as proof of anything. Because how the sun operates, is a guess at best. So that's not proof either way, to me. The flight issues are hard to conceal, though. A person knows when they've stopped for a secret refueling. A person knows when they are taken from the SH to hub in the NH and then back down to the SH. A person knows when all commercial flights can go over the north pole, but none, not one, ever goes over the "south pole". No commercial flight has ever, ever, ever gone over the "south pole". No one would stop you to travel within Antarctica either or so I think. The question is would you like to and would you survive on your own? That is why people prefer to go on tours and not completely alone. I can't comment on the Sun, but in my opinion, the UN flat Earth map cannot explain the Sun path at all closer to the outer ring. About the commercial flights over the south pole, it could be only beneficial to do that if you fly from South Africa to New Zealand, but I agree it is weird they don't do it. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 13:43:49 GMT
LIT, please can you give me a quick YouTube video, where one of these 30,000 people ("Each year we have >30000 people seeing the midnight Sun in Antarctica") films the midnight sun? So far I could only find this one, which is fake: Please if you feel at any time that we antagonize you or make you feel attacked, let us know and we will speak more agreeably. This has the potential for turning into a heated argument. Why would you film the midnight Sun anyway? You can't tell anyway if it is the midnight Sun or the regular Sun. Also, those people are not flat Earthers, they are not in Antarctica to prove the Earth is flat or that midnight Sun shouldn't happen there. I gave you a long list of videos from the South pole for every month with timelapses for the last few years. South Pole Please don't tell me there are no videos. It is just not true. If you seriously don't believe in this midnight Sun, why don't you write an e-mail to someone who claims to have been there and ask them politely to tell you? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:59:00 GMT
But the difference between Africa and Antarctica, is that I can travel to anywhere within Africa. Nobody will try to stop me, and it is populated from one end to the other. So that is just not a valid comparison. As for the sun issue, I was never convinced that this was proof of anything either way. How the sun operates, is also a mystery to a degree. Everything is a mystery. That's the whole aspect of this being a huge houdini kind of thing, that a few people have been hiding the truth of the place where our feet walk every day of our lives. I never considered sun or the lack of sun being there, as proof of anything. Because how the sun operates, is a guess at best. So that's not proof either way, to me. The flight issues are hard to conceal, though. A person knows when they've stopped for a secret refueling. A person knows when they are taken from the SH to hub in the NH and then back down to the SH. A person knows when all commercial flights can go over the north pole, but none, not one, ever goes over the "south pole". No commercial flight has ever, ever, ever gone over the "south pole". No one would stop you to travel within Antarctica either or so I think. The question is would you like to and would you survive on your own? That is why people prefer to go on tours and not completely alone. I can't comment on the Sun, but in my opinion, the UN flat Earth map cannot explain the Sun path at all closer to the outer ring. About the commercial flights over the south pole, it could be only beneficial to do that if you fly from South Africa to New Zealand, but I agree it is weird they don't do it. Well according to tons of conspiracy sources (many that are not flat earth), you cannot travel around Antarctica on your own. You will be shot on sight if you go too far. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 14:07:12 GMT
Thanks, LIT for posting a lot of supporting evidence for your claims. I will not comment further before investigating your evidence. |
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Post by LIT on Apr 1, 2015 14:10:58 GMT
No one would stop you to travel within Antarctica either or so I think. The question is would you like to and would you survive on your own? That is why people prefer to go on tours and not completely alone. I can't comment on the Sun, but in my opinion, the UN flat Earth map cannot explain the Sun path at all closer to the outer ring. About the commercial flights over the south pole, it could be only beneficial to do that if you fly from South Africa to New Zealand, but I agree it is weird they don't do it. Well according to tons of conspiracy sources (many that are not flat earth), you cannot travel around Antarctica on your own. You will be shot on sight if you go too far. Yes, and that is why so many mountain climbers, for instance, visit every year to climb Mt Vinson, and as far as I know no one was shot. I have read on conspiracy sites that the queen of England is a reptilian and annunaki control the world governments. Again, how is this not based on rumors? Where is the evidence? By the way, since you said this is mentioned in many sources, could you please provide those sources? A couple would do. |
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I have been doing more research and using different terms to see what comes up. Well this, I think, is what I have been looking for. If I am interpreting this wrongly, someone please let me know.