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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 16:52:29 GMT
Please discuss.
The ancients were unable to determine the distance to the Sun. Neither could Newton. They found the sun was too far away to use trigonometry from Earth
The ancients had a good idea of the distance to the moon though which they knew was a local object
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 16:54:20 GMT
Well, I'll get the ball rolling...
the sun is no more than 500 miles overhead.
To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow, so we can use Wein's Displacement Law to determine the temperature.
Wein's Displacement Law:
Peak Wavelength in meters = displacement constant / temperature in Kelvin
Yellow light has a wavelength between 570nm and 580nm, so we'll solve for 575nm. Since we are working with nanometers rather than meters, we'll simplify the math by multiplying the displacement constant by 10^9.
575 = 2897768.5/T
575 * T = 2897768.5
T = 2897768.5/575
T = 5039.6° K (8611.6° F)
So the sun is about 5039.6° Kelvin.
Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance.
d = (5039.6 - 288)/6
d = 791.9 km (491.1 miles)
There you have it. The sun is roughly 491.1 miles overhead. Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm), this figure could be off by as much as 5 miles. However, I don't have a spectrometer handy, and I'm willing to live with an uncertainty of ±5 miles. It's not like I'm planning to visit anytime soon -- my shoes would melt
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 17:09:31 GMT
Well, I'll get the ball rolling... the sun is no more than 500 miles overhead. To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow, so we can use Wein's Displacement Law to determine the temperature. Wein's Displacement Law: Peak Wavelength in meters = displacement constant / temperature in Kelvin Yellow light has a wavelength between 570nm and 580nm, so we'll solve for 575nm. Since we are working with nanometers rather than meters, we'll simplify the math by multiplying the displacement constant by 10^9. 575 = 2897768.5/T 575 * T = 2897768.5 T = 2897768.5/575 T = 5039.6° K (8611.6° F) So the sun is about 5039.6° Kelvin. Now, the average temperature of the earth is 59° F, or about 288° K. The mean temperature gradient of the troposphere is 6° K/km, so let's solve for the distance. d = (5039.6 - 288)/6 d = 791.9 km (491.1 miles) There you have it. The sun is roughly 491.1 miles overhead. Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm), this figure could be off by as much as 5 miles. However, I don't have a spectrometer handy, and I'm willing to live with an uncertainty of ±5 miles. It's not like I'm planning to visit anytime soon -- my shoes would melt So how did Newton discover the suns light could be split into individual colours with a prism if it only contains yellow? How do we see green on earth via sunlight? |
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 17:16:00 GMT
Are you saying Newton, the man who never finished the THEORY of gravity, disagrees with the equations I just posted? How so??
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 17:17:55 GMT
It is very telling aliveandkicking that you never respond directly but always set up a new straw-man argument to distract from the truth being brought out |
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 17:52:34 GMT
It is very telling aliveandkicking that you never respond directly but always set up a new straw-man argument to distract from the truth being brought out What you are saying about me is a lie. I always do my best to respond as directly as i can. You are misusing Wiens displacement law You need to produce a plot of all wavelengths, find the peak wavelength intensity and then solve for temperature If the sun was only sufficiently hot to glow yellow we would not be able to see white during the day. |
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 18:04:51 GMT
"If the sun was only sufficiently hot to glow yellow we would not be able to see white during the day."
where does it say that?
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 18:10:56 GMT
"If the sun was only sufficiently hot to glow yellow we would not be able to see white during the day." where does it say that? You said, >>To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow and >>Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm) |
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Post by matt on Apr 15, 2015 18:20:42 GMT
This was one that I found interesting - it refers to the DogCam video on the weather balloon of the sun's "hotspot". This fella's analysis was interesting:
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 18:36:43 GMT
"If the sun was only sufficiently hot to glow yellow we would not be able to see white during the day." where does it say that? You said, >>To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow and >>Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm) Sorry about that aliveandkicking , I should have been more clear. What I meant is...where does it say what you responded? |
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 18:38:39 GMT
This was one that I found interesting - it refers to the DogCam video on the weather balloon of the sun's "hotspot". This fella's analysis was interesting: Hey, matt, that video is terrific |
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 19:17:55 GMT
You said, >>To start off with, the sun is hot enough to glow yellow and >>Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm) Sorry about that aliveandkicking , I should have been more clear. What I meant is...where does it say what you responded? I am not sure what you are asking me. The sun has a white light although we might consider it to be yellow. If the sun produced a yellow light then white paper would appear yellow The suns light when strongly refracted creates all of the colours of the rainbow. To produce such a hot white light the sun has to be hotter than being just a yellow colour |
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 19:22:26 GMT
Sorry about that aliveandkicking , I should have been more clear. What I meant is...where does it say what you responded? I am not sure what you are asking me. The sun has a white light although we might consider it to be yellow. If the sun produced a yellow light then white paper would appear yellow The suns light when strongly refracted creates all of the colours of the rainbow. To produce such a hot white light the sun has to be hotter than being just a yellow colour Ahhh, ok aliveandkicking now we are getting at it. How do you know, personally, that what you are saying here is true? |
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Post by LIT on Apr 15, 2015 19:54:10 GMT
LionThe dogcam video and other similar videos show the Sun appearing very low. It is almost as if the Sun is in a straight line with the camera. That is really strange if the Sun is 150 million km away. Not sure when the videos were shot, but the Sun shouldn't be so low unless it is close to sunset. From the video it seems that if the camera went a bit higher the Sun might end up being below it, which is absolutely incredible.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 19:55:30 GMT
The sun and moon are the same size, and very close to the earth. This from the non-canonical book of Enoch.
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Post by matt on Apr 15, 2015 20:25:48 GMT
This was one that I found interesting - it refers to the DogCam video on the weather balloon of the sun's "hotspot". This fella's analysis was interesting: Hey, matt, that video is terrific Shucks, Lion, I have been looking at the original that I downloaded (1080 HD), and am not sure now if it really is a hotspot on top of the clouds. It might be, but I cannot tell. It looks almost like it could be a "reflection" on a body of water that is just past the cloud line and below. I cannot be sure, though. |
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 15, 2015 20:27:13 GMT
I am not sure what you are asking me. The sun has a white light although we might consider it to be yellow. If the sun produced a yellow light then white paper would appear yellow The suns light when strongly refracted creates all of the colours of the rainbow. To produce such a hot white light the sun has to be hotter than being just a yellow colour Ahhh, ok aliveandkicking now we are getting at it. How do you know, personally, that what you are saying here is true? I suggest you try it for yourself. Get a yellow light and see what colour white paper looks like. You must know about a rainbow produced when the suns light is refracted? What part of what i have said are you disputing? |
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Post by Lion on Apr 15, 2015 23:23:57 GMT
Ahh, ok I see whee you went off track, aliveandkick. Here is what I wrote, "To start off with, the sun is HOT enough to GLOW yellow" I did not say the sun's light WAS yellow.
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 16, 2015 7:11:53 GMT
Ahh, ok I see whee you went off track, aliveandkick. Here is what I wrote, "To start off with, the sun is HOT enough to GLOW yellow" I did not say the sun's light WAS yellow. You also said "Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm)" Anyway if the sun was so very close it would be easily possible to measure the angle of the sun at different places on earth and triangulate to find the distance. A triangle to a moon that was 240,000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 1 degree for observers 4,000 miles apart. A triangle to a sun that was 5000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 38 degrees for observers 4000 miles apart I think your distance needs some work |
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Post by Lion on Apr 16, 2015 14:56:48 GMT
Ahh, ok I see whee you went off track, aliveandkick. Here is what I wrote, "To start off with, the sun is HOT enough to GLOW yellow" I did not say the sun's light WAS yellow. You also said "Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm)" Anyway if the sun was so very close it would be easily possible to measure the angle of the sun at different places on earth and triangulate to find the distance. A triangle to a moon that was 240,000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 1 degree for observers 4,000 miles apart. A triangle to a sun that was 5000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 38 degrees for observers 4000 miles apart I think your distance needs some work Nope you fail again, aliveandkicking. You see you cant prove ANY of what you are saying. You simply have faith in the lying words of the pagans that write the book that you read. Period. |
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 16, 2015 21:03:12 GMT
You also said "Depending on the exact shade of yellow (whether it's closer to 570nm or 580nm)" Anyway if the sun was so very close it would be easily possible to measure the angle of the sun at different places on earth and triangulate to find the distance. A triangle to a moon that was 240,000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 1 degree for observers 4,000 miles apart. A triangle to a sun that was 5000 miles away requires the ability to measure an angle of 38 degrees for observers 4000 miles apart I think your distance needs some work Nope you fail again, aliveandkicking. You see you cant prove ANY of what you are saying. You simply have faith in the lying words of the pagans that write the book that you read. Period. Come on. Children can solve the distances for the sides of triangles if they measure the angles |
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Post by Lion on Apr 16, 2015 21:46:54 GMT
OH, you mean like THIS video shows...good:
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 17, 2015 4:58:23 GMT
OH, you mean like THIS video shows...good: You do not see rays like that on clear days. All that is happening there is the sun is brightly illuminating a cloud so that the cloud becomes a shining near surface object. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 12:36:21 GMT
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 18, 2015 14:37:13 GMT
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Post by matt on Apr 18, 2015 15:10:56 GMT
Here is a question I wanted to ask on the other forum, but was exiled before I could bring it up. I believe if I did bring it up I would have been that much closer to exile anyway. If the sun is very close and rises and sets by perspective/vanishing point, how can the following photo be explained? I took this myself, so I can say that no one is faking it. The sun is rising and the clouds clearly have the light on their undersides. I also saw this happen when I was on the highway one morning early and saw the sun coming up. You could see very clearly, since it was just above the horizon, the clouds were all lit from underneath. If the sun is very close and always above the clouds, and only rises and sets by perspective, how can the light be below the clouds? Edit: Sorry that was too low-res. Here is a higher-res version:  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 16:16:05 GMT
Speaking of getting banned at IFERS for bringing up the sunset: ifers.boards.net/post/4295/threadIn that case, why on Earth were you answering for him? As Eric pointed out, Shills seem to regularly use the tactic of pretending to have 'one sticking point', which they then never change their mind about, even after they have been supplied with ample evidence. In this case, Gyva02 claimed that the setting Sun was his 'sticking point', and then ignored the evidence shown to him, which proves that the Sun is merely moving away, not setting. When I pointed out to him that the Sun setting would not disprove the flatness of the Earth in any case, he then agreed with me. This is strange and unusual behaviour, because by doing so, he admitted that he didn't have a sticking point in the first place. If Eric said that then you're right. I support his judgement on his forum. Apologies. |
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 18, 2015 17:54:24 GMT
A common sight in New Zealand was the sun setting to the west while looking at the sea while the mountains behind you were still lit by the sun. That happens north of the equator as well.
That would happen every day the sun set over the sea and the mountains were visible but is impossible if the sun is a spotlight
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Post by aliveandkicking on Apr 18, 2015 20:27:23 GMT
The sun is rising and the clouds clearly have the light on their undersides.  Waipara NZ sunrise  Norwest Arch Canterbury NZ. The Norwest Arch is a commonly seen high level cloud in North Westerly conditions  Oregan USA sunset |
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Post by lordstevenchrist on Apr 19, 2015 20:34:49 GMT
it's roughly 2000 miles up. you forget about the yellow glass.
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